Subject: Re: Imagine and freelancing
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 23:28:00 +0200
From: dsan@cindy.ct.se (Dan Santos)
In a message of 18 May 94 Michael Halleen wrote to me:
MH> This is not what I meant. I do not look down on anyone creating for
MH> artistic purposes. All I was saying was that I had chosen the wrong
MH> package. Imagine is popular among people who create for their own
MH> personal satisfaction. I've seen appeals to the few people out there
MH> 'with serious hardware' or, as in the call for the grossest texture
MH> contest, '"professional" artists'. These things are treated like
MH> rarities. I'm just now realizing that to do my serious professional
MH> work (not in quotes) I need to start using something else.
Why just something else? Why not something else AS WELL?
MH> What I meant in my post was that I want to hear if any real
MH> professionals, not art students or hobbyists, think Imagine is the best
MH> option. (No offense is meant by the term hobbyist. 3d is a great
MH> hobby. I have hobbies too, and for them, I don't go out and buy the
MH> highest end gear available either.)
I don't think Imagine 3.0 is the ultimate 3D tool on the Amiga, it lacks some
very useful features, but offers some not available on others. Of all 3D
software on the Amiga, I think Lightwave is the most productive. It gets a
vague idea from your brain to tape amazingly fast. The editing of splines that
control almost everything over a period of time is what I find so convinient on
it. It will defenitly be part of our toolbox, now that LightRave is available
(the VideoToaster itself is useless for us).
MH> Any commercials or movie effects? I read AV Video, a video
Here in Sweden I know of several commercials done with Imagine, including our
own.
MH> No Arexx? Art Department Professional is the most useful piece of
MH> software I have ever seen, preciesly because it has extensive Arexx
MH> support. You talk about want us users to push the software in ways you
MH> didn't think of. I have pushed ADPro all over the place using Arexx.
MH> It's not a features problem, it's a process problem. As a
MH> professional, one of the things you have to worry about is time. Arexx
MH> allows you to manage your time and innovate in the way you do your work.
MH> Imagine has its way, or the highway.
I agree, the lack of Arexx is a major bummer. Look at what Arexx does to
Lighwave. Particle motions, custom modelling tools etc. Real 3D is even better,
with both Arexx and RPL. RPL is nothing I would get into myself though. But
very powerful stuff can be made by any talented graphics programmers out there.
MH> How about something simple, like getting 30fps playback. I need to
MH> produce test animations for my clients. Usually, at some point they're
If fast interactive playback of animation is very important for you, Lightwave
is the only way to go. Great preview editor. In Imagine, the only way to be
sure the timing is right, is to render wireframes and build an anim file out of
it. Since we got a PAR we just render wireframes directly to it and play.
Either way is too slow, and you loose the "flow" of work while doing it. Real
3D is worst, it can only "play" wireframes as it renders.
MH> going to want a version that they can include in their off-line edit
MH> (know what that is?). This test version must be exactly the right
MH> speed, and length. My clients are hiring voice over talent, music
MH> composers, renting editing room time, etc. If I come back to them with
MH> a final product that is timed wrong, that will waste their money, and
MH> they will be mad at me.
MH> In the stage editor, when you play a test animation, your choice of
MH> speeds ranges from 'slow' to 'fast', and most of the slow speeds are
MH> totally useless, as is the default speed, which is way to fast. The
MH> useful range of speeds are all in a small range on the right side of the
MH> slider, but you don't know what the actual speed is, and 30fps in not
MH> one of them as far as I can tell by timing it. Professional software
MH> would not waste my time with my watch to my ear, counting frames trying
MH> to figure out what frame rate I'm running at.
Couldn't agree more.. but who said Imagine is professional? I don't expect to
get professioal software for $600. While you're using software in this price
range you just have to expect things like this. And your clients pay much less
to you, than they would pay say, The Moving Picture Company, so they should
also expect some missfortunes.. if you start getting clients who wants to much
from you, but have more money to spend, get the job and let a high-end 3D
company do it for ya. And start thinking SGI and bank loans if it happens too
often :)
MH> In the project editor, when playing an animation, the default speed is
MH> 10fps. There is no 15fps, which could be usefull (I would use it).
MH> There are eight more speeds (F3-F10) that are too slow to be of any use.
MH> To get playback at the right speed, you have to press 'play movie' and
MH> then press F1 immediately, but you still may lose a few of the frames at
MH> the head. Or you can let the animation run to the end, pause it, then
MH> press F1. This is a hassel. THIRTY FRAMES PER SECOND should be default
MH> in all situations. The fact that it's not shows me you don't consider
MH> Imagine a tool for producing professional video work.
Uh? Just make a standard anim (choose "anim" in the settings) and play it back
with precise timing using PD software like rtap (with the timing option set at
3 I get exactly 25 fps). Not much of a hassle really, I have a command on my WB
menu that does this automatically.
MH> Now I'm in contact with my peers, and I'm finding out that my peers in
MH> the professional world think Imagine stinks and that my fellow Imagine
MH> users are art students and part timers. I just feel like I'm at the
MH> wrong party. No offense is meant.
There's no software that just plain sucks. Even the worst software have some
juice. I used Imagine and Real 3d in my latest project, and with this job alone
I would be able to purchase four copies of each package (if I didn't eat, wear
shoes or had other expenses :-). With this I mean that there's no reason to
limit yourself to one package. Amiga software is cheap.
MH> I think the mistake here was mine. I'll give Imagine one more chance,
MH> then I'll leave you all alone and go where I belong.
Where's that?
MH> ANYONE OUT THERE USING IMAGINE FOR SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL WORK, SPEAK NOW
MH> OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE.
At Highlight Studios we use Imagine on our work, but also Real 3D and hopefully
Lightwave in a near future. We do animations mostly for promotional tapes for
different companies, but also for broadcasted commercials sometimes (okey, I
confess, only two so far ;-). We have in-house access to several video formats
(BetacamSP, 1"C, MII and D2), and a laser disk recorder (no rewritable). With
the arrival of PAR, single-framing is a thing of the past :))). Amazing
product, a video engineer from STV (Swedish national television) analysed the
output of this baby with this vectorscope-thingie (or whatever the name was)
and said it has the nicest output of all similar MAC or PC-systems he had seen.
Sorry, off-topic, but I'm so amazed by this low-priced miracle :)
/Dan (dsan@cindy.ct.se)
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